			    TRAVELLER Digest 459

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: TRAVELLER digest by "Leif O. Pihl" <pihlx001@gold.tc.umn.edu>
  2) A few newbie questions... by Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
  3) Re: Traveller - Imperium and 5FW by "Upton, Django" <DUpton@vtrnntov.telecom.com.au>
  4) RICE paper sources by Paajanen_Jyrki/ccbi_im@smc.carel.fi
  5) Re: Traveller - Imperium and 5FW by eackerma@vt.edu (Eric Ackermann)
  6) Re: TML/XBoat/Time Machine by eackerma@vt.edu (Eric Ackermann)
  7) Various... by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)

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Date: Sun, 22 Oct 95 14:41:51 -0500
From: "Leif O. Pihl" <pihlx001@gold.tc.umn.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 
Message-ID: <308a9e7e1207002@gold.tc.umn.edu>

Sirs/Madams:

Is this the correct E-mail address to send messages to the "traveller" mailing 
list?  For as long as I've been on the list, I've just been a "lurker", now I'd 
like to ask a question or two.

Tanks,  LP 




======================================================================
            Leif O. Pihl        "pihlx001@gold.tc.umn.edu"
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  pager:  inside  612 area code: "534-5235",
          outside 612 area code: "1-800-367-7221", then "534-5235", 
                                  then enter your number.  
======================================================================


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Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 17:03:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
To: Trav Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: A few newbie questions...
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951022164945.17721B-100000@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>

Hi. I've been reading the stuff on this list for some time, but this is 
my first entry.  Just so everybody knows my general position, I've played 
Traveller since the beginning, and still consider CT to be the best GDW 
line to date.  The systems they've since put out have IMNSOHO, been 
overly-complex and unforgiveably typo-ridden.  Basically, I see them as 
more flash and less substance (unfortunately, this seems to be a trend 
for RPG's in general).  Ok, I can hear you: 
"enough with the opinion peice!"  I do have some substantive questions:

1. Can someone please explain the TNE personnal combat system (or refer me
to an explanation of it)?  If I'm reading it right, weapons do 
ridiculously low damage.

2. Does anyone know if there's an errata sheet out there for TNE?  Either 
I'm reading this book wrong, or I'm missing some complete tables (Does 
GDW not have a copy editor?)

3. Is there a mailing list like this for Classic Traveller?

Thanks.

:D >:( >:) <:( 8) :P :O 8O :* ;* <:P 8P 3:D> |[ |) >8( :Q >:Q :B 8B 3|)>
     "Windows '95: New look, same multi-crashing..."  --Anonymous
Charles Collin,
 Psychology Dept.,
  McGill University.  
:D >:( >:) <:( 8) :P :O 8O :* ;* <:P 8P 3:D> |[ |) >8( :Q >:Q :B 8B 3|)>



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Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 12:04:00 EST
From: "Upton, Django" <DUpton@vtrnntov.telecom.com.au>
To: tml <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveller - Imperium and 5FW
Message-ID: <308C183D@msmailv0.telecom.com.au>


aswfh@orion.alaska.edu (William F. Hostman) writes:

 ------------------------
Attn: eackerma@VT.EDU
Here are blurbs on all the Traveller Boardgames I know of that predate TNE:

I haven't played 5fw, but have read it. I wish I had a copy. It's supposed
to be pretty good, and it looked playable.
 ------------------------

I have played it. FFW does give a good feel for the grand maneovre of the 
various forces and the problems of communications time lag.
It does however have a few problems:
1. This game is SLOW. It seems to take forever to do anything.
2. Each turn is supposed to represent a week but in this time a plotting 0 
or 1 admiral can:
a) receive and assess intelligence from other systems ( which are at least 1 
week away)
b) jump the fleet to a new system ( takes a week )
c) refuel at gas giants in the new system ( takes a day or two at least )
d) fight a space battle ( another couple of days )
e) travel insystem to the mainworld ( some more days )
f) fight SDB's and bombard the world in preparation for landing ( a day or 
so )
g) land ground forces
h) fight a two week ground campaign. ( two weeks as in Invasion: Earth )

Either the turn is really a lot longer ( at least a month ) or the order in 
which things may be done in a turn should be reversed.
ie. 1) enemy troops on planet? fight ground combat.
2) no enemy space forces in system? fight SDB's, bombard and land troops.
3) fight space battles
etc......

 -------------------------
Imperium is excellent, but is distinctly pre-classic in setting... exact
details escape me, and I don't wan't to dig it out. It is very fun, and
plays quickly (1 war in aboput 2-4 hours, campaigns can take up to  20
wars!
 -------------------------

Also Dark Nebula which uses the same system to game the expansion of the 
Aslan against the scattered Solomani during the long night.

 -------------------------
Invasion Earth is the final battle of Earth during the Solomani Rim War
(imp 1002 or so). I have played it, with a friend, and then went out and
got a copy. the regiment-brigade level operations are great, and it
included rules for integrating with traveller --- and the old MT Rebellion
sourcebook gives troop strengths that can be used in it!.
 ----------------------------

The same system as FFW but with more ground detail.
Unfortunately one of the most boring games around...

 ----------------------------
Mayday was the Classic Traveller Space Combat system done with counters on
a hex grid. Excellent, quick and dirty.
 ----------------------------

It uses the past-present-future system of movement that should be used for 
most space combat games but hasn't been seen again until Battlerider.

 ----------------------------
Snapshot was the boardgame adaptation of CT's personal combat system;
better laid out, now usefull only for the maps.
 ----------------------------

Unless you're still using CT in which case it's reference card is pretty 
useful for combat and the initiative point system can be used to make things 
a bit more interesting :)

 ---------------------------
Azhanti High Lightning and Striker were the same system; AHL was using a
grid map and counters aboard ships, and striker was minis. AHL is well
worth buying for the complete deckplans of the AHL class ships (400000ton
FI-14).
 ---------------------------

I thought AHL weapon ratings were slightly different to Striker ( warning: I 
do not own a copy of AHL to refer to).

Django.

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Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 12:17:21 +0200
From: Paajanen_Jyrki/ccbi_im@smc.carel.fi
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RICE paper sources
Message-ID: <H000058703750ad8@MHS>

When you post those excellent RICE papers, could you insert a list of
used source material as well. Thanks.

Jyrki Paajanen


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:44:18 -0400
From: eackerma@vt.edu (Eric Ackermann)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Traveller - Imperium and 5FW
Message-ID: <199510231244.IAA07755@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

Thanks for the information on the Traveller-related boardgames. Makes me
wish I had bought them years ago when I had the opportunity!

Best,

Eric





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Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:50:01 -0400
From: eackerma@vt.edu (Eric Ackermann)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TML/XBoat/Time Machine
Message-ID: <199510231250.IAA07908@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

>>>>Maybe a time machine would be more appropriate.  I just get the feeling
>>that if it's not one of the little black books, you're not happy with
>>it. <<
>>
>>You too, eh?  I thought the Xboat list was for the dissidents. <g>
>>Basically, I think we have a case here of a person who wasn't going to like
>>the RSB no matter what he found inside.  One of the things he neglected to
>>observe was that there was a disclaimer in the front that said character
>>generation tables could not be accommodated in the RSB, but would appear at
>>a later date, or somesuch.
>>
>>The black books are still great reference, but we've moved on now.  TNE
>>isn't as bad as so many of the bellyachers make it out to be.  I don't
>>speak from an uninformed stance, either.  I've played every incarnation of
>>this game since 1980.  I've done the CT black books, and they really
>>couldn't hold a candle to the current game in many respects, other than
>>simplicity.
>>
>>--Chris
>
>Having recently showed several newbies the TNE Rulebook, I was asked the
>question "So where's the award winning background and history of the
>Imperium?" TNE is the BEST system of rules yet done by GDW. It relies far
>too much, IMMNSHO, upon converting players from previous editions. It
>refers to things which happened before, in both the rules and the support
>materials. So much so that one person (who'd never played traveller at all)
>looked through the background and asked where "TNE Book 2" was so he could
>actually get a grip on the setting.
>
>As for the XBoat list, I havent seen more than 1 item per week since I got
>on it. It's slow, and doesn't have the discussion of the TNE Rules which I
>use.
>
>As for RSB being the best supplement for any game, I would suggest looking
>at some of the supplements for RuneQuest, Ars Magica,and Star Wars: They
>all have at least one of Equal or better quality. It's nice, but not
>enough. In fact, Chris, what I wanted was for GDW to have included the 1
>page needed for the Continuity Fix. A little more detail on the XWeb would
>have been nice.
>
>GDW is gouging their customers (Myself included) with their pricing.
>Compare  Task Force Games and GDW: TFG $19.95 buys 150-200 pages. $14.95 to
>TFG gets you about 100 pages. GDW charges $19.95 MSRP for 96 pages.
>
>
>-Wil
>
>William F. Hostman


I think you can get the needed Continuity Fix for a mere $10-12 in the form
of the booklet Survival Margin. I borrowed a copy from a friend in order to
find out what had changed in the Traveller Universe since I last played c.
1985. 

Best,

Eric


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:15:05 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Various...
Message-ID: <08bb1bb0@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

Responding to William Hostman:

>>In fact, Chris, what I wanted was for GDW to have included the 1 page 
needed for the Continuity Fix. A little more detail on the XWeb would have 
been nice.<<

It's subjective, of course.  For those players who haven't played Traveller 
before, as you have mentioned, it would be nice.  For those of us who've 
been with the game for eons, we already know so damn much about the Xboat 
system, the info would be superfluous for us.  I agree that GDW should be 
in the practice of catering to new players.  Promoting growth is the only 
way to stay in business.


Responding to Susan Shock:

>>Don't get me wrong; I enjoy and appreciate Traveller's unique history and
rich background. I just think TNE is about HOPE, not despair.
  "Dark" games, such as Vampire, Werewolf etc. and pretty much all 
Cyberpunk games, are set in worlds where this is no hope; this is what 
makes them so dark.
I simply do not see this in TNE.  It is not my intent to slam anyone; I 
just would like to know why so many people think TNE is so "dark". <<

Comparatively speaking, TNE _is_ "dark."  The complaining you're picking up 
is predominantly old guard Traveller players who wanted the status quo to 
continue.  I can't exactly say as I entirely disagree with them, but I'm 
willing to accept what GDW has done and go with it.  Traveller has perhaps 
the richest background in all of RPGaming and I get a lot of enjoyment out 
of participating in each and every level of history.

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End of TRAVELLER Digest 459
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